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Post by bruce on Oct 13, 2018 13:14:33 GMT
My first time painting Russian cavalry. As far as I can tell hussar plumes appear to be all white, except for buglers. Other types of cavalry as well. Not very creative of them! Maybe it's all that snow. And it's harder to name a unit on the table without plumes matching unit colors.
Anyway, am I missing something? Any exceptions? Bruce
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Post by Sho on Oct 13, 2018 14:08:43 GMT
Yes, all cavalry - white plumes, all infantry - black plumes. Trumpeters/Drummers - red plumes. NCO/Officers haved different tops of shako plumes and different bottoms of hat plumes. No exceptions.
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Post by davidsh on Oct 13, 2018 20:04:05 GMT
Hi Bruce. Wouldn't the units be identified by the hussar uniform colours?
David
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Post by bruce on Oct 13, 2018 21:24:52 GMT
Thanks, Sho! Will not be hard to paint these en masse!
You are right David, though hussar uniforms especially are adorned with a lot of braid. But now that I look at other nations, it seems like plumes don't always match up with tunics, dolmans, pelisses, etc. anyway. And some plumes are bi-color. I know nothing about this. Now I am wondering if the plumes were mostly decorative rather than one way to identify a unit on the field, which I had assumed was one of their functions. And, maybe they were not worn in the field anyway. I can't imagine light cavalry on patrol with all that fancy kit.
As we have discussed, we mostly seem to paint parade ground uniforms. I imagine that armies in the field became rather disheveled over the course of a campaign - maybe even the fancy hussars! If anyone knows anything more about plumes, it would be interesting to learn. Bruce
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Post by davidsh on Oct 14, 2018 12:24:12 GMT
Some plumes come off my figures, so I just leave them as are - a bit of a mixture!
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Post by profjohn on Oct 14, 2018 18:40:43 GMT
I'm not sure about Russians specifically but I think you'll find that plumes were removable and stored in a special plume case when in the field. I know that the Austrians also used a waterproof sheath which went over the plume when it was attached so all their plumes would appear black. I don't know if the Russians did this as well. I hope that helps.
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Post by bruce on Oct 15, 2018 0:37:02 GMT
Interesting about the plume case!
I thought the French did use plume colors to differentiate grenadiers, voltigeurs, chasseurs. But I certainly would not want this kind of thing attached to my already too tall shako to help skirmishers find me as a target! I am happy to leave off a broken plume as well - I'm sure uniforms got less fancy on the march or the battlefield. Bruce
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Post by profjohn on Oct 15, 2018 19:04:00 GMT
They did use plume colours to differentiate various troops but whether in the field or not I'm not so sure. I have come across various levels of uniforms for the French: grande tenue de parade (plumes certainly worn), grande tenue ordinaire, petite tenue and tenue de service (plumes probably not worn). In addition there was tenue de ville, tenue d'hiver and tenue d'ete. This is for the French but I'd be surprised if the Russians didn't have similar gradations especially for cavalry and after all the russsians even had regulations for moustache waxing - some regiments points all up, some points all down, some points straight- so they were no slouches when it came to detail. Having said all this illustrations often show plumes on active service although Polish grenadiers had plume cases which they wore hanging down beside their sword so that's an example of a tenue de service which specifies how to deal with a detached plume. Whether plumes aided recognise is a moot point anyway. I'm pretty sure I remember a snippet from a British officer saying that at a distance even uniform colour didn't help and shako shape was the most reliable guide to the identity of distant formations. My understanding is that at Waterloo it was blanket rolls that told the French that the new troops arriving were Prussians and not Grouchy's corps. Having said all that I like my figures to have all their finery unless they are sculpted otherwise so they all march in parade dress plumes andall. I like it that way.
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Post by bruce on Oct 16, 2018 4:18:26 GMT
As you should, Prof, with your beautiful troops! And thanks for all the detail - fascinating stuff. I am amazed at the minute things that come up for this period, giving it a seemingly endless variety of uniforms and accoutrements. After ten years now of Napoleonics, I still feel like a beginner on a new adventure.
I began gaming the ACW, where in typical American fashion, or lack of it, appearances were generally far less colorful, perhaps more pragmatic. Easier to paint, and I had studied the war from childhood. Napoleonic uniforms are an explosion of color and variety by comparison.
I paint everything as on as on parade now as well. While I know that Napoleon's army in Italy or some British in Spain were poorly supplied at times and may have looked grubby, i don't want to paint them like that! Bruce
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Post by profjohn on Oct 28, 2018 20:52:11 GMT
Yesterday I came upon a reference in the first Sharpe book I've read - a previous thread put it in my mind to do that and on the evidence of one I think the Matthew Hervey books much superior although Sharpe was entertaining - to a French infantry officer in action with his shako plume removed and tied to his sword sheath. I doubt if the author made up a nice little detail like that.
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Post by profjohn on Oct 29, 2018 0:02:19 GMT
In researching drumstick covers (see another thread) I've come up with a snippet that Russian infantry carried their plumes in a plume case which was strapped on top of their knapsack.
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Post by bruce on Oct 31, 2018 4:40:33 GMT
I suspect that plumes were worn less often than we think. Paintings from the period and through the next few decades naturally portray parade dress to show off the subjects. But it just seems likely to me that these soldiers were just like all soldiers when it came time to campaign and fight, taking the practical route with all equipment deemed not essential. Casing your plume would be a practical expedience so as not to lose or ruin it. One less thing to get in the way or worry about.
Agree about Hervey and Cornwell. Better detail and realistic story lines in Hervey,but Sharpe more than anything brought me to Napoleonic wargaming - lots of villains and and a great hero with a sort of universal narrative. The formula became tired after a while but I will always be attached to Sharpe and the Sean Bean series, like old friends. Bruce
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Post by john124 on Oct 31, 2018 17:20:36 GMT
Hi Bruce, I would just like to say that the Russian Infantry seemed to wear their shako cords and flounders when other nations didn't. I wonder if that also applied to hussar plumes? john.
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Post by bruce on Oct 31, 2018 21:39:47 GMT
Yes Prof, and I now realize that plumes would also be a badge of honor and source of pride for troops. As Americans, our first order of business has always been to skip the finery and keep your head down and that may be clouding my judgment.
I did discover some plume info from Col. Elting but of course he writes about the French. It seems that Napoleon had discovered early on in his career that infantry plumes not only made his troops appear more imposing but also caused the enemy to fire too high and too soon. Plumes did come out for battle but were otherwise kept under cover. After 1810 or so it became difficult and expensive to find bear fur and other cool stuff to add to uniforms and for headgear, but the Grand Armee had a long tradition of taking uniform matters into their own hands despite general orders and all kinds of competitive adjustments abounded. Colonels spent their own money to dress up their men.
Col Elting also confirms that in the grand tradition of soldiers everywhere, uncomfortable or impractical gear tended to disappear. He describes one unit under fire who filled up their tall shakos with sand to create a wall and later had some difficulty replacing them. Bruce
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Post by bruce on Nov 2, 2018 17:16:37 GMT
As a side note to all of this, I discovered that Calpe Miniatures, 25mm, make campaign dress versions of its figs with covered shakos. Even among French grenadiers, trouser colors are not uniform based on their painted examples. No plumes. They look a bit more real, I suppose, but some of the fun is definitely gone!
They also sell uniform plates by a guy named Peter Bunde - lovely detailed illustrations of a wide variety of Napoleonic troops. His website is in German, or maybe Danish, trust a Yank not to know, but they are not hard to figure out. Bruce
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