pushingtin
Active membe
Posts: 45
Favorite army: Anglo-Allied and Spanish
Favorite battle: Austerlitz
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Post by pushingtin on May 7, 2015 15:00:01 GMT
I have updated my home grown rules with a few tweaks after a couple more years of playing link
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Post by bruce on May 10, 2015 17:58:50 GMT
Have just gone to your site - great stuff all around. Have read through your rules, quite good. I am also working through my own, which is to say I am thinking a lot about what others have done. I especially like your concept of strong point vs fortification. The thread I introduced about field works drew some comments about this topic. You have helped me figure out another way to look at this. Bruce
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pushingtin
Active membe
Posts: 45
Favorite army: Anglo-Allied and Spanish
Favorite battle: Austerlitz
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Post by pushingtin on May 11, 2015 15:39:27 GMT
Glad you found it of some use The strong point fortification thing is an interesting one. I spent ages skirting around the issue then the idea suddenly clicked.
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Post by bruce on May 12, 2015 21:08:19 GMT
So after looking at this again, how does one implement a strongpoint? What conditions must prevail? How many turns to erect each type? For example improvised might go up quickly for a unit with the right troops near loose stone, trees, brush, etc. Bruce
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pushingtin
Active membe
Posts: 45
Favorite army: Anglo-Allied and Spanish
Favorite battle: Austerlitz
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Post by pushingtin on May 13, 2015 19:43:04 GMT
I haven't included rules on construction during a battle as this rarely happened, usually only before it, except for 'improvised' strongpoints. I have rules for these in some of my scenarios. They need something to work from, so a farmhouse that is not preprepared or similar, and need to be in contact with an infantry unit undisturbed (by any combat) for one entire turn to be 'occupied' by a garrison.
'Fortified' and 'prepared' strongpoints are only available if constructed (or prepared) before a battle starts, as are 'improvised' strongpoints that consist of roadblocks etc. that need materials as part of their preparation.
I am working on some army generators for 'pick up' battles that I'm testing out that will include more details of when a strongpont can be included before a battle starts and how many. Currently approximately one per corps can be used and is only available if an army is on the defensive. For each one you have to sacrifice one infantry Brigade in your line up and the strength of the strongpoint depends on the rating of the brigade being sacrificed, so a fortified strongpoint for a Seasoned Brigade or a stubborn or tenacious one, a Prepared strongpoint for a Trained Brigade and an improvised for an Undisciplined one.
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Post by bruce on May 14, 2015 3:22:57 GMT
Apparently Élan allows overnight construction of limited dimensions, may be enhanced by engineers. What about the barrier thrown up near the La Haye Sainte gate, abandoned in the face of superior numbers? It was made of branches and stone. Bodies of french troops also served as barricades near the doors. Should troops get some credit for this hasty work? Bruce
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pushingtin
Active membe
Posts: 45
Favorite army: Anglo-Allied and Spanish
Favorite battle: Austerlitz
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Post by pushingtin on May 14, 2015 6:42:41 GMT
I encompass temporary and hasty measures like this in the roll of the combat dice if the strongpoint gets attacked. A successful roll on the part of the defenders means their measures have been successful. A turn encompasses around an hour of time on the table so plenty of provision for such hasty measures in that hour. I think it is easy to overcomplicate these things at the scale the rules are aimed at, which simply makes the rules more complex than they need to be and slows things down, the various dice rolls for command control and combat can abstract all manner of minor and local tactical decisions without having to go into two much detail .
How (and when) to rate a particular strongpoint is probably somewhat subjective, and Waterloo is one of those battles that provides plenty of examples. I am currently fine tuning my lists for Waterloo for next month and would currently rate La Haie Sainte as a 'Fortified' Strongpoint, border line 'Prepared'. Although it had some issues such as lack of preparation of loopholes and firesteps (and of course the famously burnt barn doors, used for firewood the previous night) It had a crack garrison of some of the best troops Wellington had which compensates for this. Any barriers etc thrown up in the vicinity of the farm complex are included in the strongpoint at this scale. For Hougoumont, as it is quite large and well defended, I plan to divide this into two 'Fortified' Strongpoints adjacent to each other, one for the main chateau and one for the formal garden. I am also toying with making the orchard an 'improvised' strongpoint, along with the sandpit, but probably won't as I feel the roll of these is covered by the skirmisher rules. Both Papellotte and Frishchermont will also be 'Fortified' Strongpoints. La Haie will probably be a 'prepared' as it is less robust and I haven't quite decided about Smohain, this may end up just being a village.
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Post by bruce on May 14, 2015 12:42:03 GMT
This all makes great sense and I agree about not having too many rule mechanics for every detail while considering the actual conditions. Thanks very much for the expertise and guidance! Bruce
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