|
Post by Sho on Jul 3, 2014 14:00:05 GMT
I see here, how people build battlegrounds in 6mm scale, with 6mm scale buildings and trees. Can we realize, that using 6mm landscape elements on table means, that we must use 1:1 scale in quantity of troops? I myself use 2mm buildings for 15mm figures.. and I think, that for 6mm this may also work well..
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jul 3, 2014 14:45:00 GMT
Personally this would look wrong to me . I no what you are getting at ! I would love to do 1/1 for figure ratio but the shear magnitude of figure painting would make this near impossible for myself anyway,I just couldn't paint 100000+figures But I want my scenery to look good , do you use 2mm scale rivers hills trees and roads as well ? Could you show us picture to see how this would look on the battlefield.
Kindest regards
Richard
|
|
|
Post by Sho on Jul 3, 2014 16:04:22 GMT
This is simple visual appearance.. if figs, buildings and trees all are in same scale, then all others things, like distances and quantity, are automatically treated by brain in same scale. If figures are slightly bigger than buildings, then brain interpret them as symbols, not as actual real persons. So, for big battles on small tables we have only few figures to use and therefore scales of different elements must play together for creating satisfactory visual result, combined with playability. I only start to build my battlefields and not even have proper armies in 15mm, but here are my first (uncompleted) full Waterloo with allmost all figures I have. Many cannons and buildings and trees are missing and Austrians stand instead of British.. www.boki.ee/Military_Uniforms/Uniforms_0015/Military.htm2.5cm = 200m. One 18mm figure = 400 men. If use 6mm, then the ratio on the same table may be 1 to 50. Or 1 to 25, if build table only slightly bigger (3cm=200m).
|
|
|
Post by marcost on Jul 6, 2014 10:32:23 GMT
6mm buildings look too big for the appearance I am trying to create on my battlefield. I've bought loads of 6mm buildings from different manufacturers, the scale 'look' varies hugely between suppliers. 2mm is too small for me, I need maybe 3 or 4mm scale to look right. I have made my own and may try shrink-casting a few that I already have.
I use 48 figures for my foot battalions, two bases each of 24 figures: 12 wide, 2 deep. That's enough painting for me and gives the look of a massed formation. I can represent march column, square, line and attack column by how I place the bases
Regards,
M
|
|
|
Post by tim on Jul 6, 2014 11:13:59 GMT
Scale is always a matter of fudge and compromise in wargaming, always has been and always will be (unless you play at 1:1). For that reason, knowing that it never going to be totally accurate, I want them to look as nice as possible. This means massed figs in units, nice scenery and buildings that are in scale with the figures. Just my 2 penneth worth.
|
|
|
Post by Sho on Jul 19, 2014 9:00:47 GMT
My apologies. Looks like my "2mm buildings" are much bigger than I expect, when compared with 6mm figures.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jul 19, 2014 10:28:18 GMT
I think it looks good with 6mm figures and 2mm building
|
|
|
Post by mike1956 on Jul 27, 2014 5:18:21 GMT
Besides 6mm Napoleonic and like many others here I would think, I also play other 6mm periods, one of those being ACW. I've just found Alter of Freedom, ACW rules and scenario books. I purchase a set of rules and the scenario books on line as PDF's a few weeks ago. These rules use 3mm builds for 6mm mini's on brigade size bases. The best of all (and I know the buildings are North American) is that they have 2 free downloads of 3mm paper building (which they stick to card stock). webpage: www.6mmacw.comHave a butchers and see what you think, lots of after action reports with photo's on the site, showing the mini's and building. Also has interesting tips on scenery making. Mike
|
|
|
Post by steve on Aug 2, 2014 17:51:46 GMT
I personally stick with 6mm buildings for 6mm figures, but I try to keep the village bases to reasonable limits. Given I use 1/20 scale this works fine otherwise the village bases would not fit a battalion. But I do agree that it is not necessary to keep the building and figure scale the same and I think it is much more of an issue the bigger scale you go for. I use my 6mm buildings for my 10mm WW2 - particularly for things like Timecast which are quite big this works well and saves me money on getting more buildings too!
Steve
|
|
|
Post by anothertim on Aug 8, 2014 16:20:10 GMT
Wonder what you all think of this representatintation? and Figures are H&R, Buildings are Langton, nominally 1:1200. The buildings are big enough so as not to be outscaled by the figures but not so big that one building has too great a footprint for a village.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Aug 8, 2014 21:51:33 GMT
Welcome to the forum Tim , the effect looks pretty good with the buildings being smaller , it gives an effect of larger figures wich I like thanks for posting.
Richard
|
|
|
Post by mike1956 on Aug 11, 2014 1:51:25 GMT
Tim
Welcome to the forum. Like the photo's and terrain especially. Are the buildings hame made? Balsa wood?
Regards Mike
|
|
|
Post by anothertim on Aug 11, 2014 23:49:32 GMT
Mike and Richard, thanks for the welcome.
Mike you asked about the buildings. They are commercial resin and metal produced by Rod Langton - Langton Miniatures. They are part of the 1/1200 Napoleonic Naval range.
Groundscale is 1:10000 so the buildings are a good scale to bridge between the look of the figures and the space of a town or village.
|
|
|
Post by mike1956 on Aug 12, 2014 0:50:38 GMT
Tim
Thanks for that. I kind of remember buildings being advertised by Langton Miniatures, even pictures in some old war-game magazines. Nice looking buildings though.
Mike
|
|
tac
Active membe
Posts: 25
Favorite army: Austria
Favorite battle: Leipzig , Wagram
|
Post by tac on Nov 7, 2014 15:55:34 GMT
I Always try to only have one storey Buildings , go out on a field and have a look at some real houses that are some distance away, they Always seems to disapear in the greens and never look like those Buildings you can se on a tabletop game
its not the footprint , but mostly the height that looks wrong on most houses made for gaming
|
|
|
Post by Sho on Nov 8, 2014 4:48:01 GMT
You mean - houses height are too big? I agree..
|
|
geoffm
Active membe
Posts: 22
Favorite army: French 1813 - 1815
Favorite battle: Waterloo campaign
|
Post by geoffm on Nov 12, 2014 19:05:12 GMT
I don't really see that there is much one can do about the fact that true scale 6mm buildings will take up a greater area on the model battlefield than they did in reality. This can be overcome in the case of groups of buildings such as a city, town or village whereby the number of buildings used covers the total ground area but in the case of specific iconic buildings such as Hougoumont at Waterloo some fudging is necessary. In this case it is necessary to reduce the distortion as much as possible so that the terrain feature in question does not overly dominate and maintaining known scale distances between them.
|
|
|
Post by ian on Nov 19, 2014 19:16:21 GMT
I don't really see that there is much one can do about the fact that true scale 6mm buildings will take up a greater area on the model battlefield than they did in reality. This can be overcome in the case of groups of buildings such as a city, town or village whereby the number of buildings used covers the total ground area but in the case of specific iconic buildings such as Hougoumont at Waterloo some fudging is necessary. In this case it is necessary to reduce the distortion as much as possible so that the terrain feature in question does not overly dominate and maintaining known scale distances between them. Just painted up the yet to be released Leven Hougoumont and believe me it deserves to take up plenty of space I don't see the real issue of scale being a bigger problem than other scales. Indeed I see it as less so as in 6mm you can get away with a cluster of buildings for a village or town and a fair few more for a city and it at least look SOMETHING like a village etc. where in 28mm it's just three buildings and out of space. I have found Leven that bit smaller than TBM and Timecast but that's a plus and works well with 6mm figures. I can't accept the infantry looking down n the roof of a house Ian
|
|
tac
Active membe
Posts: 25
Favorite army: Austria
Favorite battle: Leipzig , Wagram
|
Post by tac on Nov 21, 2014 11:26:33 GMT
it all depends of what and of wich battle size one try to do , hougomont in 1;300 with all garden etc is over a meter in size , not many wants to do waterloo in real scale , imagine wagram in 1:300 scale. So this is what I do, I play small battles or parts of larger battles in real 1:300 scale wich hougomont is a perfect example and makes up a fine game in itself I base my small figures just like they do in 28mm, 4 figs to a base and a btn is some 6-8 bases and the problem of deploying in line is just as it was in reality , a crowded field makes real limitations and decisions important 1 Bn in open lines with 2 coy wide is 7cm wide and 8cm Deep ( 6 coys ) makes 300*0,07=21m roghly half the size as a real Btn would have and the line is 54 m wide again almost half the size. 6mm wargaming is the best to really deploy napoleonic armies , 28mm just dont looks right , pretty as they are but still be out of proportion . I could double the numbers of figures in the Btn and have even closer to scale distances but I Think this works fine for me and looks right to my Eyes , thats what matters I Think : ) One can never have it right with scales and distances. atm im doing a small wargame on the kitchen table on a 2*4 wich suits me just fine atm and i can put it aside while doing other things without to interupt the play . Its a flank attack on a river crossing part of a much bigger battlefield so my brigades still must protect the flanks . well, enough of my random thoughts/ Please put some pics up of the painted Hougomont ASAP : ) Laters all TAC
|
|
|
Post by ian on Nov 21, 2014 16:33:14 GMT
Thanks for your thoughts. The Leven Hougomont fits on a A4 (American Legal sheet) of board. It should timing be right be presented here in December. I have the first one almost finished (I am doing two) though I need to get another board for the orchard :-)
I am working with a mate and we are doing Waterloo next year, the table is 19 feet long and between six and eight feet wide so we can get most of the table looking right. Lee is in the middle of doing the terrain, he has the Allies and half the French almost all painted whilst I have the other half of the French and all the Prussians done less three regiments of cavalry two battalions of infantry and 8 guns and a limber. Have these done by end of December. Also got more buildings to paint up yet but not many more needed. We are representing each battalion with a 28 figure unit based on 60x60. Cavalry are regiments of nine figures 60x30 and a battery of two guns on 30x30 bases (two of)
It's going to be a bit epic LOL
Ian
|
|
|
Post by tim on Nov 21, 2014 20:47:44 GMT
Really looking forward to seeing Hougomont, thats on my wishlist for sure (I may never use it but it's one of those iconic buildings that has to be painted). I'm sure I saw an pictue of it unpainted somewhere but can't find it now.
Tim
|
|
tac
Active membe
Posts: 25
Favorite army: Austria
Favorite battle: Leipzig , Wagram
|
Post by tac on Nov 21, 2014 21:16:57 GMT
Nice : ) will be looking forward to see the layout
maybe a bit of topic , but Sibournes Waterloo wich is on a museum in London is what I would love to game on . Too bad they dont have made a colour book about it with Close ups and big Pictures as its very hard to have look at it as it is now , next time Ill bring a binocular with me
If they have made a book on it ,please let me know as that was some years ago I asked . all I have is some pics from an old wargame Magazine showing a part of placenoit.
|
|
|
Post by ian on Nov 22, 2014 19:02:49 GMT
Really looking forward to seeing Hougomont, thats on my wishlist for sure (I may never use it but it's one of those iconic buildings that has to be painted). I'm sure I saw an pictue of it unpainted somewhere but can't find it now. Tim I have a picture of it unpainted on my blog, linkWell it will get a few more hits for the post LOL Ian
|
|
tac
Active membe
Posts: 25
Favorite army: Austria
Favorite battle: Leipzig , Wagram
|
Post by tac on Nov 22, 2014 19:23:11 GMT
link isnt working , but I remember I saw it some week ago on your blogg i guess
edit ; maybe not your blogg afterall , might been some other blogg , hmmm as I didnt find it now
Regards TAC
|
|
|
Post by tim on Nov 22, 2014 20:50:35 GMT
Thanks Ian found it tac, look here: linkTim
|
|
Harlequin
New member
Posts: 12
Favorite army: British, Russian, but all of them really.
Favorite battle: Austerlitz, Wagram, Borodino, Waterloo,and, of course, Leipzig.
|
Post by Harlequin on Nov 24, 2014 1:40:17 GMT
Thanks for that Ian (and Tim). It looks excellent, even without the paint. Looking forward to seeing it with its "clothes on", as it were.
|
|
|
Post by ian on Nov 24, 2014 17:39:11 GMT
Thanks for that Ian (and Tim). It looks excellent, even without the paint. Looking forward to seeing it with its "clothes on", as it were. It's finished so all I need to do is take some decent images (the ones yesterday were not good enough) so it's off to work and using the photo booth so should be on in next 48 hours as Mike has been kind enough to allow me to publish before he releases. Though on that subject, due to being so big it's going to be cast to order rather than holding stocks all the time. Ian
|
|
|
Post by tim on Nov 24, 2014 19:31:29 GMT
While we are on the subject of Hougomont I have done a bit of searching and found some interesting images. linklinkJust goes to show you that including the formal garden and the orchard how big the place was! It could quite easily fill up a wargames table on it's own if done to true scale!
|
|
tac
Active membe
Posts: 25
Favorite army: Austria
Favorite battle: Leipzig , Wagram
|
Post by tac on Nov 24, 2014 20:57:52 GMT
TXs for the links , The interesting thing is I have never imagined the buldings being White . all models ive seen has Always been red brick I visited waterloo in 2002 but didnt have enough time for hougomont
|
|
|
Post by Orlog Subedai on Nov 28, 2014 16:50:52 GMT
Throwing my hat into the ring, my take is purely visual. You are never going to get a ground scale that works with your figure scale, that's a given. So I forget about that inconsistency and go with everything else being in scale...maybe not hills but you know what I mean. For me this is a no brainer especially as I make all my own terrain anyway so it fits in with my table. To simplify matters you can limit the size of a village to say a 60mm square table footprint or even using an old cd as a base and go up in size accordingly. On a base that size you can get a very reasonable selection of buildings plus have some impedimenta scattered about the place.
|
|